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So, what is a hate crime?
July 7th, 2009, 12:02 pm · 105 Comments · posted by Salvador Hernandez, Staff Writer
Most violent crimes involve some sort of hate, but when is an assault or a robbery considered a ‘hate crime’?
Just because the victim and perpetrator are of a different ethnicity or because one yells a racial epithet as they commit a crime doesn’t necessarily constitute what is known as a hate crime. Readers have brought up the question in stories I’ve written in the past, such as when the Orange County Human Relations Commission released its report on 2008 hate crimes in Orange County, or in an incident currently under investigation involving a female custodian who was allegedly attacked in Ladera Ranch by two men who were yelling racial epithets while attacking her – so I thought I would address the question here.
Maria Guadarrama
Whether a crime was racially motivated or not is a difficult one for investigators and prosecutors to pin down.
“It is a difficult case because we have to prove what someone is thinking,” said Susan Kang Schroeder, spokeswoman for the Orange County District Attorney’s office.
What authorities are basically asking during a hate crime investigation is, was the victim specifically targeted in part or entirely because of their gender, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or their association with a group or person.
Someone making racist remarks during the commission of a crime isn’t necessarily committing a hate crime, but it could be an indicator of it, authorities said.
“It depends what the intent was,” said Jim Amormino, spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.
This Fourth of July, Maria Guadarrama, a custodian in the Covenant Hills community said she was attacked by two men who were yelling racial epithets as they attacked her. Authorities said they are investigating the assault and robbery as a hate crime.
Different factors have played a role in that decision, Amormino said.
Guadarrama said that when she saw the two men, they began to verbally attack her by telling her, “Go back to Mexico,” and that they didn’t like Mexicans. Authorities said Guadarrama was called things such as “Mexican pig” and other derogatory terms.
The two men took $797 that Guadarrama said she was carrying for her rent, a radio and a cell phone, but considering that the two men were in an upscale neighborhood with presumably wealthy neighbors, the fact they chose to assault a custodial worker is odd, Amormino said.
In court, the question of whether a bias was the motivating factor for the crime is ultimately decided by a jury. As a sentencing enhancement, it would add time to a defendant’s sentence, if convicted.
For example, Anthony Tabarsi was sentenced to nine years in prison for swinging a knife after making fun of three men speaking Arabic and expressing his hate for Arabs.
But not all hate crimes are assaults. Vandalism targeting groups of people can also be considered hate crimes.
A van which was vandalized in Los Alamitos was investigated as a hate crime. Photo by Joshua Sudock
According to the Orange County Human Relations Commission, 79 hate crimes were reported in the county in 2008. The organization also tracks hate incidents in the county – events that may have singled a person because of their gender, race, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation but no actual crime was committed.
Here are the numbers:
2003 – 52
2004 – 53
2005 – 55
2006 – 34
2007 – 45
2008 – 45
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Strange that this ‘hate crime’ against Maria happened within a gated, closed community on July 4th after 10am when people are normally out and about preparing for the holiday and that Maria gave extremely detailed descriptions of both suspects yet no one else saw them. hmmm. With those descriptions if the thugs lived in the community they would be recognized immediately. And how would outsiders walk into this community without being noticed by residents or security cameras? Yet not one suspect in custody. And if this story turns out to be bogus what are the chances that the OCR will do a follow-up report? Slim and none. Too much of a political agenda invested in this story to admit that it could be bogus. Same for the cops. They almost made this woman a celebrity by this time. I wonder if she gets automatic legal residency (if she happens to be undocumented) for reporting a ‘hate crime’? Look into that, won’t you OCR?
ocobserver: The OCR will do no follow up. The story is bogus but if you say so, then you or I am a racist. Most news agencies today engage in this type of race baiting on a daily basis. OCR loves the illegal and holds others who were here first and who actually built this county in complete contempt. What the OCR does not even know is that by supporting this filth, they are actually cutting their own throats and will be out of business within 10 years or be some third rate Spanish language rag. This is what happens when you stack the editorial staff with far left wing nuts and your reporters are adolescent minimum wage “C” students from Cal State Fullerton’s Journalism school.
just some racists in denial. wow, its so sad. why would she make this up? its ot like she is getting anything from this. are you telling me you are too ignorant to accept the fact that racists like yourselves are capable of horrible crimes?
Funny. He questions the facts of the story (which are questionable from a logical point of view), and he’s a racist in denial? Why wouldn’t she make it up? People (of all races) make up stories for attention all the time. It certainly doesn’t make those who question facts racists. In fact, screaming ‘racist’ is a sure sign you have no point to make, and have already lost the argument.
This story is a joke. I have never seen skinheads anywhere near Ladera Ranch, especially in Covenant Hills.
Funny how some people cannot understand English one minute, then understand it clearly the next. Hmmm. Same old story…
Keep up the good work OCR.
First of all why would this woman make up such a story?and why would she stab herself in her arm?…the community has over 800 homes.. it would be very easy for them to enter with a friend in a car that lives there and obviously the friend will not tell on the racist thiefs to the authoritys..think about that buddy.
Frankoc, do the words twalla bradley ring a bell? By the way did the two preachers involved ever apologize to the caucasians who were accused by her? NO NO NO NO I don’t play that no more
I have to agree this story sounds phony. What does she get if she’s lieing? Free publicity, free charity, and a free pass if she is here illegally. Sounds like a sweet deal, lie for a ethnicly motivated cause and reap the rewards. I bet we see more of these hokey news stories. FBI needs to investigate. Review servelience tapes. Question residents who may have seen something. Hopefully the PD finger printed the golf cart and took DNA samples before patting themselves on the back. Her description of the assailants might be blonde hair, blue eyes, carrying either American flags or surf boards, and they said dude a lot.
The answer to the question is that a so called “Hate Crime” is any crime committed by a white, heterosexual, Christian man against any so called “minority group.” Hate Crimes violate the constitutional mandate for equal justice and due process under the law. Essentially, it is a liberal based politically correct construct to give additional privileges to specific groups in order to right some imaginary past wrong. Think of affirmative action in the criminal prosecution area… We now accept that Affirmative Action in hiring was state sponsored discrimination and someday, perhaps, we will realize that these “hate crimes” laws are patent violations of equal protection under the law as well as a complete erosion of free speech. Eventually, words uttered that even offend a recognized minority group might even have criminal implications. At that point, it will be all over for our country. Government officials at the federal level all recognize that the new federal hate crimes law does NOT protect in any way white, Christian, heterosexual men. You need look no further to find real bigotry and hate than this legislation.
JB,
Actually, the idea that a hate crime can only be committed by a Caucasian, heterosexual Christian man against a minority group is a mistake. For example, if you follow the case of Anthony Tabarsi (link is included in the article), the case involved a Persian man, Tabarsi, who attacked three Arab men.
According to the OC Human Relations Commission’s report for 2008, other ethnicities have also been identified by authorities as perpetrators of hate crimes. The break down of identified perpetrators looks like this, according to the report:
African American: 3
White: 32
Latino: 13
Middle Easter: 1
The vast majority, however, were unidentified.
oh yes, the poor white man, can never catch a break! ahhahahahahahha
honestly, haha
I think you just proved JB’s point.
Statistics are often used to illustrate how drug laws are more likely to be (unfairly) applied to African Americans. In this case, you’ve just proven that hate laws are more likely to be (unfairly) applied to Whites.
Following this logic, you can’t claim that Whites commit a larger share of hate crimes without also claiming that African Americans are more likely to be drug addicts.
Your whole story/slant sounds incredibly racist to me.
Just what is this “African-American” rubbish? Does that mean a person is really half-African and only half-American? If so, where ARE their loyalties? Now my grandson’s heritage is English, Spanish, Welsh, Scots, Norwegian, German, Irish, French, Canadian, Northern American Indian, Meso-American Indian, and Mexican. Should he call himself Anglo-Spanish-Welsh-Scots-Norwegian-German-Irish-French-Canadian-Northern American Indian-Meso-American Indian-Mexican-American? Hell, no! He defines himself as an American. No if’s, and’s or but’s! (Funny, but, although he is only 1/64 “Mexican” (and even less Spanish), his last name means that the schools, census–I.e. anything “Government”–defines him as “Hispanic”. More Government money that way!)
45 Hate crimes in 1998? Doesn’t seem large compared the the daily violent crime reported in Santa Ana and Anaheim.
Why isn’t gang violence and tagging not considered a hate crime. How is marking a territory and attacking rival gangs less of a hate crime than a skin head spray painting a swastika?
Don’t get me wrong. I think all of the crime should be punished equally to the full extent of the law. It just seems like reverse descrimination and race baiting to have special laws for minorities.
Rick,
You’re definitely right. Reported hate crimes are definitely fewer than crimes that are reported across the county as possible gang activity. However, hate crime is a sentencing enhancement that must be proved along with the purported crime. For example, a suspect must be convicted of the crime of assault. Then prosecutors must prove the stipulation in court that it was a hate crime as well, which would increase the sentence.
For gang crimes there is a very similar tool for prosecutors and investigators to use. Vandalism, tagging, assault, murder - these are all crimes that can also carry a sentencing enhancement if it is proved that the suspect is a member of a criminal gang and committed these acts for the gang.
I understand your questions as I had the same questions about what constitutes a HATE crime vs just a crime where racial epithets or symbolism (swatika) are used. It may appear obvious to us as outside observers that something is a hate crime but there are specific thresholds that must be met for it to qualify for a legally held HATE crime. The DA spokesperson said it best in this article that they have to be able to prove what the person was “THINKING” at the time and merely using a racial pejorative name is an indicator but not all by itslef; it must be corroborated.
isnt it funny how all of you have come up only to point fingers in the other direction? oh yeah? well santa ana has alot of crime so there.
you racists are ridiculous! aghhahahah good thing the youth in this country are turning away from your ideals!!!
I agree with OC Observer:
It’s amazing how the OC writers have rallied behind Maria’s story with three articles. One reporting, one with related incidents to support her story and now using as an example of hate crimes in OC.
The OC register has lost all credibility. They are so biased toward Illegal Immigrants and latino community that they cannot be considered a legitimate news source.
Get used to it, Illegal immigrants are going to rule So. Cal. The OCR is getting prepared for it’s new audience.
I think there’s another reason for the Register’s race baiting. Look what happens when a story like this is posted: racial stories always generate more comments, each comment equals a “page hit”, each page hit means the Register can charge their advertisers higher rates for reaching a bigger audience.
If the Register’s slant on racial issues bothers you, the smart thing to do is to avoid the Register’s web site and go elsewhere. I find myself doing that more and more these days; if enough of us did the same, the Register would either have to change it’s pro-Illegal editorial policy or go out of business.
“Government officials at the federal level all recognize that the new federal hate crimes law does NOT protect in any way white, Christian, heterosexual men. You need look no further to find real bigotry and hate than this legislation”
Many people will resist this statement but it contains lots of truth. Just like many germans in 1939 resisted the notion of human rights and social equity for jewish people. Some are simply more equal than others. We have not really made that much progress our modern world, have we?
A “Hate Crime” is any ACTION by a white, heterosexual, Christian man against any …..of the ongoing takeover and destruction of what once was known as America by anyone doing the taking and destroying.
weird, didnt we do that to some indigenous race that was already living in america?
And didn’t some indigenous races war amongst each others’ tribes as well?
If you believe Archeologist, There is no Indigenous race in California, of course Tean, you may believe the evil white man responsible for all evil in the world. You’re a lost cause. Wake Up, Tean, This has happen since time has been recorded. And being an idiot doesn’t help you. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said that when one person is discriminated against everyone loses for no one can be free until everyone is free from discrimination
ocobserver and JB, you both are 100% correct! Good on ya, I see there are still a few of us minorities left!
just be glad your not an illegal wetbk mexican who cant speak english in the USA but is working and taking a job from a real american. this mexican is not a citizen. deport this illegal! if you cant speak english that means you didn’t pass your citizenship test. i am sick of these mexicans they come here and speak spanish. how disrespectful! she should consider herself lucky.
ahhaha. ignorant racists!! make me laugh so hard!!
Tean,
If you such get a big laugh out of racists, then look in a mirror.
You’ll be laughing yourself silly.
You are making a common mistake in dividing immigrants into citizens and illegals. There are also legal resident aliens who are here legally but who are not citizens. And there are probably a lot of other classifications from different types of visas.
In addition, unfortunately as has been reported previously there are whole bunches of people, contrary to what most of us thought, that are excepted from passing an English fluency test for citizenship.
I think it said if they had been here 10 or maybe it was 20 years, or if they were over I forget whether it was 40 or 50, but not very old they were exempt from the English test.
Seems pretty stupid to me. if they have been here many years they should be able to speak English if they want to be a citizen. And whatever the age was, 40 or 50, that’s not old enough to excuse someone.
I used to teach ESL and had an older Vietnamese lady who was I think in her 60s and who had apparently suffered some brain damage affecting her memory a bit from a motorcycle fall in Vietnam. When I taught her, she struggled with verbal English–much better at reading and writing–but she perservered and several years later had qualified to become a citizen–and her English was much better!
If somebody was yelling out Mexican pig! then maybe it was a hate crime. I think all crime should be treated the same, racist or not.
Maybe the reason people did not notice the criminals because they looked like everyone else in that neighborhood, if a minority was walking through I bet someone would of pointed them out.
Affirmative Action has nothing to do with this article but the O.C. residents will always find any little excuse to put everything that does not favor your community down.
White Christian heterosexual males have always and will always be protected in this country, Do I really need to give examples?
You assume she was undocumented? how could she have got a job as a custodian in that “upscale neighborhood” it is almost impossible to get a job now while being undocumented, well unless you count the fields or selling flowers, oranges on the side of the freeway. But it is ORANGE COUNTY the most RACIST county in California with the most corrupt legal system from your sheriff on up you should be ashamed of yourself but its the O.C. so I always expect less. Christians yea right. GOD will judge you
Kind of like Reginald Denny - the white truck driver - was protected when he was dragged from the cab of his truck and beat almost to death because he was white. I don’t remember any hate crime charges against those that beat him, and they were all captured on video tape.
Crimes are behaviors that are deemed by society as punishable. Hate is an emotion. I do not understand how the government can justify the regulation of emotion, which is what hate crime legislation does. Behaviors, not thoughts, are what we as a society need to control. What is even worse is that the hate crime legislation is inconsistently applied with protections provided only for certain groups of people.
minus the hate it was still an assault.
Oh, and something else you must consider, friends. The OC Human Right’s Commission makes money by promoting stories like this. They gain publicity. So, of course, they put pressure on the OCR and the OCSD to blow these stories up, regardless of whether there is a scintilla of truth to them or not. Their lifeblood depends upon fueling these fires. They don’t want them to go away! They want these stories to multiply!
Hate crime laws are just another feel good given to ” minorities” to make them feel superior, someday they will learn, all these new laws do is create more hatred.
It has been proven time and again, when white males finally have their backs to a wall, they unleash with a vengance, and sad to say, these laws will divide the country.
a few interesting tidbits, the jenna six, were suppossed to be tried as adults and with the hate crime statute ( come on,6 blacks beating a white with slurs thrown out) definetly a hate crime right ?
nope, our wonderful president and his sidekick the good reverend went down there and made sure they got special treatment
7 days unsupervised probation and a $500 fine, the only one that got screwed was the kid who pleaded guilty.
hahah! omg with every comment i read it just gets more ridiculous!
I like reading the comments much more than the story. Thank you all for your valid and strong opinions. I think the OCR is a less than decent paper, but the readers are educated, opinionated, and make some of the OCR writers look like junior high writers. Thank you.
racists are educated? mmmm i think not.
Hey Hernandez! I hope you are reading these comments. OCOBSERVER and JB are saying it like it is. You and OCR will NOT do a follow up story when she turns out to be a liar. IF arrests are made and her description turns out to be dead on perfect, then we get our opinions stuffed back in our mouths and we owe apologies. I DOUBT that will happen. I believe she concocted up this story, filed a false police report, scratched herself on the arm, made that perfect description of the white men and racial slurs for a reason. Because OCR will print it true or not.
Leaving aside the story that I thought was a little over the top. I have some real reservations with Hate Crime Legislation. It assigns value to human beings and elevates the value of minorities and woman over typically white males. The legislation is supposed to be color blind but it’s not. If two Hispanics gang members attack black gang members because of their race, wouldn’t that make it a hate crime? The short answer is yes according to the legislation but in reality it very rarely is charged that way. There are numerous examples of Hispanic gangs currently attacking and killing black gang members in Los Angeles County. The standard is seldom applied because that was never the purpose of the authors of the legislation. I do not believe that it was ever intended to apply to anyone else except whites. I say this as a former police officer who has witnessed the application over the years. The authors of the legislation intended to apply the act to members of white gangs who victimized minorities as a way to deter those types of crimes in communities where a minority populations were moving into. As the spokesperson for OC District Attorney’s Office said, it’s it’s applied to those persons who you believe you can prove what’s in the mind of the suspect. Bottom line, is that it’s a lot easier to prove an act against a minority is a hate crime because their status is so obvious. Wasn’t it Jesse Jackson who said that it was impossible for a black person to be racist because they had no power. We now live in a PC world with people who attempt to finds ways to be offended. We have good laws to protect and process criminals today but what we don’t need are laws that are not applied equally.
Referring back to the Covenant Hills incident, it still seems a little odd to me that the story reads like a Hollywood script. It is my experience that real life is not what happens in Hollywood movies or TV shows. Having voiced my view that the story in suspect in my opinion, I do believe that there is a chance that it did go down that way, but I will need to be convinced. since I doubt that I will not ever get all the facts, I will be content to just be suspicious.
Why isn’t it a hate crime when black men specifically target and rape white women? Why is the neo-liberal, minority-fawning media so scared to approach this issue? If a white man (Duke lacrosse fiasco) is accused of raping a minority, it’s forced down our throats by CNN, NBC, ABC and the other pro-obama outlets. White people in this country had better take a long, hard look at who they elect into public office in the future. It’s your future rights and your childrens’ that are at stake.
it would be, but what does that have to do with this story? can you people not wake up and smell the racist bs you are all spewing? neo liberal? who owns the media you retard? not liberals. ahahhahaha
Tean - You seem to be the one with the most hate on this blog. Seriously, calling someone the “R” word. Please think before you type.
So-called “hate crimes” are just another manifestation of guilt that “should” be felt by whites, males, and straights in this society.
This is nothing more than a war on what has been considered to be the norm in our society for years…that our society has been dominated in business and politics by “old, white men” and in their opinion, it’s time for payback.
Only people “of color” should be celebrated, listened to, or supported. Those who are not of color should be distrusted, disdained, and denigrated.
Those who are in favor of hate crimes are waging class and racial warfare against a large segment of society, and it needs to stop.
So as you describe it the white males are the modern day jewish people of Germany 1939. If a certain segment of people prosper in a society they will be envied and eventually slapped down. That seems to be the way of the world. So when people want discrimination to go away many do not want ALL discrimination to go away, only the discrimination directed against themselves, not the other guy. That’s a very interesting notion that you bring up.
LOL, ocobserver you talking as if white people are the minority in America.
1)So what does white males and jewish people of the 1939 got to do with a lady who was assaulted and robbed got to do with any of this?
2)what these two guys did was wrong and should be punish.
3)Spread your propaganda somewhere else where the white man is so oppress. Just like how the KKK was never in Anaheim.
ocobserver says:
July 8, 2009 at 10:09 am
So as you describe it the white males are the modern day jewish people of Germany 1939. If a certain segment of people prosper in a society they will be envied and eventually slapped down. That seems to be the way of the world. So when people want discrimination to go away many do not want ALL discrimination to go away, only the discrimination directed against themselves, not the other guy. That’s a very interesting notion that you bring up.
To answer the question,a hate crime is when an individual is attacked solely because of their race religion ethnicity or sexual orientation.This would have to be proved in a court of law,of course.
hit it on the head smash
I am still waiting for the duke players to get their public apology
unfortunately, too many whites take pride in being ” liberated” and going to the extreme to show how much they care about minorities
all they do is destroy their own kids future
I think the Duke players did get a public apology from the prosecting DA. Getting a public apology from the idiot Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are a differant story…
I know someone who was in a fight at a bar. The police were called and the other guy said he was gay. The guy I know was charged with assault and hate crime was added because the other guy was gay. The person I know didn’t even know the other guy was gay.
Being charged and convicted are two seperate things. It’s a case of his word against your friend. Just like in any case, I can lie and have charges pressed against you. If I have found to had lied, I would be charged with making a false police report. If your buddy is innocent, then the same thing would happen.
Hate crimes: A Savage Hypocrisy.
it amazes me that some of you don’t see the differance between me beating some one up and me specifically targeting and beating somenoe up because of their ethnicity.
So you’re saying other people are different and need a different set of laws than white people need? If I stab someone for sleeping with my girlfriend, didn’t I kill that person out of hate? Hate crimes by definition tell us that some groups of people are not equal to other groups. If someone beats a gay man because he’s gay, why should he get more time than a guy who beat another guy in a drunken rage? Shouldn’t it be the same punishment?
Johnadams,
The law applies to everyone equally and protects anyone regardless of ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Someone who attacks a Caucasian man simply because he is Caucasian could be prosecuted under the same sentence enhancement. Hate is definitely involved in most violent crimes, but what this specifically addresses are crimes that are motivated in whole, or in part, by the victim’s ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation or affiliation to any of these groups.
It’s a sentencing enhancement similar to enhancements used to prosecute gang-related crimes.
So it’s putting people into separate groups. Can you name one case of a white person being the victim of a hate crime? Gang enhancement is one thing because they’re basically terrorists, but it’s not the same as gender or race. Women worked to fight for equallity. Blacks had to fight to be equal. The gays are currently fighting to be equal.
Of course there is hate in violent crimes. You have to hate someone to violently beat them or kill them. What’s the difference if one man kills another man because he caught him with his wife, and a man who kills another man because he is black? Don’t they both involve hate? Doesn’t the one man hate the other man for having sex with his wife, and that was the motivation for his crime?
No it doesn’t apply equally to everyone. If it did there would be many more hate crimes charged against people who direct these attacks against the white population in this country. Whites make up a very large percentage of the american population. Yet only a small percentage of the hate crimes actually prosecuted are targeted against whites. So what are you trying to say? That white people ‘hate’ more than others? That’s a complete fallacy. Go look at the average makeup of the prison population. Look at the cities where most of the murders occur in Orange County. Use your common sense. We see where the hate is. But don’t try to convince us that there is more hate in Ladera Ranch than there is in Santa Ana. You simply lose yoru credibility.
TEAN why so full of Hate?
So only the most violent crimes are due to hate. How does one know that? You cannot read a person’s mind! The most violent crimes are due to total depravity, no values. Hate Crime Legislation is a totalitarian policing of thought. Besides it is only used when the Victim is a minority. What if the assailant is a minority and the victim is white? What an abuse of law…to classify which human beings are more worthy of stronger punishment on the thugs that hurt them.
C,
The enhancement is not used only when the victim is a minority. The enhancement also applies if the victim is white.
Show me a case of a minority charged with a hate crime against a white man. Hate crime enhancements started in 1999.
hate crime enhancement was started way before 1999.
Also there was a very recent incident where a few black girls are charged with a hate crime against a white woman. Or do you want an example of a hate crime explicitly where a white man was the victim?
If I dont pay my taxes is that a ‘hate crime’?
If a man hits his wife and calls her a bit–, then that should be a hate crime too.
Otherwise all violent crimes are hate crimes and should not be distinguished one from another. A violent act is a violent act.
Under currntly PC bull white people cannot be victims of hate crimes. That = discrimination.
I guess you didn’t read the article very well or really understand the true meaning of hate crime. It takes more than just racial or sexual slur to constitute it as a hate crime. Slapping your wife and calling her a bitch doesn’t make it a hate crime. Slapping her becuause she’s a woman makes it one. That’s a big differance and you have to prove the intent of the action was based on the fact that she’s a woman.
Wow, all these paranoid white male heterosexuals posting here! BTW, I’m a white male too. Hate crimes can go both ways, a minority, female, or homosexual can also be charged with a hate crime just as well as a white, male, heterosexual can…so I fail to see how that is reverse discrimination….unless you are just paranoid.
TEAN is one of those losers who wants to feel morally superior. When TEAN grows up and sees the world as it really is, TEAN might just change her mind.
Liberals are the real racist and sexist abusers. They catagorize everyone and feel sorry for those “minorities” and think that they need special protections. They don’t. Everyone should have an chance at success. If someone fails, take a look at their attitude and level of effort. Did they give up easy? What if it turns out that white men are more compulsive about being successful?
I find if so funny. Whenever I get into a discussion with people I contact that are so pro (black, hispanic etc), I ask them the same question. If you don’t like the laws in America, why don’t you apply for citizenship for the country that your “people” are from and go back? Their response: utter silence. Gets them all the time.
On a side note, a previous poster mentioned “Mexican pig”. I am a police officer of Mexican descent and I get called that all the time. LOL!! I like to pick on by white buddies at work by saying, ‘ if you don’t like dealing with all the minorities here, go to the Midwest. Ha. Good times.
Sooo Rudy, you would have been against the civil rights movement in the 60’s? You would have told blacks to shut up, stay in the back of the bus or move back to Africa??? Are you freaking kidding me, that question you ask really stumps the pro black, hispanic, gay crowd???
Not sure who you talk to, but that seems like an easy objection to overcome….a third grader could respond to your challenge.
Segregation was the law of the land, love it or leave it! FREAKIN’ AMAZING DUDE…..really!
Tell me!!! If this should turn out to be some sort of hoax, why would she not be charged with a hate crime for blameing someone that is white in a false police report?
ocobserver:
What I’m trying to say is, hate crime enhancements are absurd and all they do is put everyone into their own groups, instead of us all being equal. They also tell the population that certain groups are not equal to other groups, and thus need special protection\laws. This should offend anyone who had to fight for equal rights\equal treatment.
Bottom line: If a white man murders a black man because of skin color, he should get the same sentence as a man who kills a man who was having sex with his wife. In both scenarios, someone was killed due to hate.
If you feel that all murders should be treated equally then why have 1st and 2nd degree murder? Why give death penalty to some murders and not others since your logic is someone was killed regardless of the motive?
Question for Sal Hernandez…
Do you remember when the OCR reported on an incident at the Laguna Beach Day labor site a couple years ago when some guys pulled up after the site officially had closed for the day, but there were some workers still hanging on looking for work.
They pulled up and had a conversation with the day laborers and then a confrontation broke out. It ended with the car’s back window broken and the driver of the car peeled out and drove a ways up Laguna Canyon Rd. before turning around and speeding back to the day labor site and tearing through the site with his car knocking down trees and fencing while the workers scrambled to get out of the way.
The two guys in the car were arrest and it was reported in the OCR (and many other papers; LA Times and local papers and local TV stations) that they were charged with attempted murder and hate crimes.
Two days later the DA dropped all charges against the guys and there was a protest in front of the DA’s office by Latino rights activists, which was covered in your paper. But OCR never followed up on why the charges were dropped and what exactly happened with that case.
BUT, the OC Human Rights Commission is STILL declaring that incident as a “hate crime”.
Can you give us any insight into what exactly happened with that case? And why did the OCR not follow up and give the public the real true story of what happened that day?
(I have some knowledge of what happened, but I would like to hear the OCR’s explanation on why they did not let their readership know the truth after so much fanfare over this when the “thought” they had a hate crime issue.
Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.
So throwing a rock through your window because I like the sound of breaking glass is malicious mischief. throwing a rock through your window because you are a white Anglo-Saxon protestant and I don’t like WASP’s would be a hate crime.
Beating you up and taking your wallet because I want your money is robbery, assault & battery. Doing all that because you are from a different country than I am, or speak a different language–and I don’t think you deserve to be paid for working because brown people are worthless– is stupid and a hate crime
Just what I thought
They are making a martyr out of this julio…
How about a story of how many white ids get beat up and rolled by these illegals..
But that wont happen
it aient PC
they are making a martyr out of this julio
To get back more to the article I have a question. The last paragraph states, “According to the Orange County Human Relations Commission, 79 hate crimes were reported in the county in 2008. The organization also tracks hate incidents in the county….”
but then in the list of hate crimes by year the total for 2008 is given as 45. So is the Human Relations commission pumping up the #s and including what they call hate incidents in the hate crime #? It sure looks like it.
My impression is that they seem to pump up the #s. There is also a concern that people are calling something hate that isn’t. I totally decry incidents like that claimed by the woman in Ladera Ranch, not sure why so many people are skeptical, but I trust the sheriff will be investigating it.
However I am concerned that a lot of accusations of hate have been thrown around that are not hate at all. Saying that certain behavior is wrong does not mean that the person making the statement hates those engaging in the behavior as has been the name calling accusations.
We have freedom of speech in this country. While I do not like hate, name calling, profanity, etc, we do have freedom of speech in this country which is supposed to protect even speech that others don’t like.
there was a widely reported incident in IL some years back where the ACLU, contrary to what they often do, was true to the principle of supporting freedom of speech and defended the rights of I think it was the American Nazis to march in a town where there were many Jews.
With things becoming so pc, freedom of speech is being abridged if it isn’t pc, especially on university campuses.
And it seems to be pc to make very hateful statements about certain groups–such as Christians or conservatives, but when a local politician circulated an email that was deemed an offensive racial stereotype he was hounded out of office. Some of us weren’t even aware of that particular stereotype as it was not part of our experience.
So, while there definitely still is hate and prejudice in thought and even in actions which is despicable, criminalizing hate, that is actions deemed to be motivated by hate seems to run contrary to freedom of speech and conscience. And while I’m not sure of the facts, there is certainly a perception that hate speech and acts are mostly committed by whites against minorities. And they are definately given a pass on some very hateful speech that a white person wouldn’t dare say about a minority.
Well yeah, 3 strikes was reactionary, but it should be more like 1 strike to fit the crime and truth in sentencing. All too often we read about someone who had been sentenced to a period of time in prison, such that they should still be there, going out and committing a worse crime such as a murder. And all too often they seem to go with plea agreements that drop many of the counts and lower the crime and the penalty and then they only serve a part of that reduced sentence.
But some of the diversion programs for 1st offenders or in some cases repeat offenders if there is evidence that they are ready to change is a good idea–as long as they are monitored and there is accountability and controls.
Also, all too often we read about someone was supposed to get anger mgt or some other kind of intervention and they seem to ignore it with impunity. Enforcing those things and holding them accountable could actually help them to follow through with what was mandated which for some–if they are willing could change the course of their lives.
Staff Writer, Salvador Hernandez
Will the victim submit to a polygraph test by the police. At least we may find out if her story is true. With all these articles about this one possible attack the OCR is making it sound like there is a race war going on in Ladera Ranch.
a hate crime is when rusty miller of madTV says it is, duh! all he has toi do is put on his thinkin cap with the propellor on top and call his profs at hole in the wall johnboy college to know what isnt nice and what is. if you want to see action at work just tune in madTV
This woman either lost or spent her money. I guess if I was that stupid, Id be dumb enough to make up this rediculous story too.
Where are the sketches? Where is the reward for info?
Just WHAT is a “hate crime”? It is, by the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (28 U.S.C. 994.280003(a)) ANYTHING a proposed “victim” wants it to be.
You see, when the Democratic Congress pass, and Bill Clinton signed the law, they conveniently defined it to be any crime “actual or PERCEIVED” taken because of the victim’s “race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation.
PERCEIVED is the crucial element, and enables a person or government agency to cry “hate crime” simply because it is what a “victim” perceives. It DOES NOT have to be true or factual, just what the “victim” thought or “perceived” in his/her own mind..
This act has taken up more than 1,100 pages and cost the taxpayers $30,000,000,000! For what.
Well, it has certainly kept people employed in Orange County where we have the Orange County Human Relations Commission with 9 members, the Orange County Human Relations Council with 20 members, Orange County Community Partner Advisory Board with 22 members. And who knows the size of their combined staffs? On top of this, Federal law also mandates more paperwork by local law enforcement agencies who are required to prepare reports on alleged “hate crimes”.
And for all the cost and manpower, they have been able to ferret out 79 actions which they deem to be either perceived or real “hate crimes”, or just incidents that were not criminal in nature!
Question for Sal Hernandez…
Do you remember when the OCR reported on an incident at the Laguna Beach Day labor site a couple years ago when some guys pulled up after the site officially had closed for the day, but there were some workers still hanging on looking for work.
They pulled up and had a conversation with the day laborers and then a confrontation broke out. It ended with the car’s back window broken and the driver of the car peeled out and drove a ways up Laguna Canyon Rd. before turning around and speeding back to the day labor site and tearing through the site with his car knocking down trees and fencing while the workers scrambled to get out of the way.
The two guys in the car were arrest and it was reported in the OCR (and many other papers; LA Times and local papers and local TV stations) that they were charged with attempted murder and hate crimes.
Two days later the DA dropped all charges against the guys and there was a protest in front of the DA’s office by Latino rights activists, which was covered in your paper. But OCR never followed up on why the charges were dropped and what exactly happened with that case.
BUT, the OC Human Rights Commission is STILL declaring that incident as a “hate crime”.
Can you give us any insight into what exactly happened with that case? And why did the OCR not follow up and give the public the real true story of what happened that day?
(I have some knowledge of what happened, but I would like to hear the OCR’s explanation on why they did not let their readership know the truth after so much fanfare over this when the “thought” they had a hate crime issue.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS ARTICLE ON THE DOUBLE STANDARD FOR HATE CRIME REPORTING:
http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfolk-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d10-Is-there-a-double-standard-when-it-comes-to-hate-crimes
To the Staff Writer of these stories.
I still have not gotten a response from you if Maria Guadaraama will take a polygraph test concerning her hate crime attack.
Personally, I would also like you to take a polygraph test to confirm that your not writing these stories for propaganda purposes or a political agenda.
I want Salvador Hernandez and Yvette Cabrera to follow this story to the end. I want them to make catching the perpetrators of this crime their first priority. I want them to hound every police agency demanding that they put all resources at their disposal to the task of catching these dirt bags. I implore them to get the OCR publishers to provide artists to draw sketches of these criminals, which this lady seems to be able to describe right down to their ages within two years and their eye color, so that we can all be on the lookout.
I want them to hold demonstrations outside of the Sheriff’s offices demanding something be done, and I want Salvador and Yvette to write every week the results of the ongoing investigation.
We want action and we want it now. Post those sketches in the paper immediately Surely all of us working together can find these skinheads and make them pay.
What would you want to happen if this turns out to be just another hate crime hoax?
BTW has anyone heard of the U-Visa which allows an illegal alien who is the victim of a crime to work and live in the US for four years?
Here’s a link to the LA Times article that talks about the U-Visa given to illegal aliens who are victims of crimes while in the US:
http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/08/u-visas-issued.html
The article says that the U-visa can be used to establish permanent residency
I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley in the 1950’s and 60’s.
All of a sudden there are White Racists attacking Hispanic
custodians?
Hahahahahahahaha
This woman sounds like she is trying to obtain a
U visa.
She needs a lie detector test police!
I DON’T BELIEVE HER ONE BIT.
Do you think she got a raise because of this? hmm..
Did you see the pictures of this, uh, vicious attack? It looked like
she scratched her arms with a nail**Didn’t even break the skin** (Yet
we’re to believe this was done with a switchblade? Funny how this women
couldn’t speak a word of English but didn’t seem to have that problem
when she supposedly recalled the statement’s of these uh, hate mongers?
If someone were to curse you in Russian, would you be able to repeat
what was said? I would bet you just as sure as I’m sitting here this is
just another “Hate Crime Hoax” Google Hate Hoaxes and you will see what
I’m talking about..
Hate crime legislation is specifically biased against groups who don’t qualify for federal protection.
for example: an African American man murders a Caucasian man. The law treats it as a murder case, but if the situation is reversed, the Caucasian man is charged with murder; plus the crime attracts an additional charge because it is a ‘hate crime’.
Check out the following video. The African American teens were shouting things like ‘..its a black world now..’
I just want to add that the police are not pursuing ‘hate crime’ charges because the victims are white caucasian.
http://podblanc.com/white-family-beaten-nigger-mob
You may also be wondering why this video is not all over the mainstream media. It is because the mainstream media downplays any crimes where white caucasians are the victims. They will just say we need to ’step back and examine why the African American attacker(s) felt they needed to commit this crime’ or some other psychobabble/excuse. Then the defendant will get trialled and let out on bail, ready to offend again and get revenge on even more of the evil ‘whitey’
These black on white crimes are rarely seen anywhere except local media, and the internet. If they were given the same level of coverage as a white on black ‘hate crime’ there would be massive white outrage all over America.
There are over 37,000 instances of black man on white woman rapes/sexual assaults per year in the US!! Over 100 per day!! These stats come directly from the US Department of Justice website.
In conclusion: ‘So, what is a hate crime?’ When whites are not protected by ‘hate crime’ laws and the Constitutional 1st Amendment is hanging by a thread. When more and more of the liberties White Americans take for granted are being legislated away each day. When blacks/minorities are rewarded with lighter sentences for killing, raping, and maiming whites.
Then the only logical conclusion a reasonable, rational person can come to is that the Zionist/Israel worshipping establishment is seeking the complete genocide of the white caucasian race. The very race that gave meaning to the words western ‘civilisation’
Also worth noting: white women, white police, and white military are not federally protected classes within the current ‘hate crime’ legislation.
When a rational person steps back and looks at the big picture it is effectively open season on anyone with white skin.
These are hard truths. I don’t expect everyone reading this to come around to this way of thinking right away. It took me about 10 years to really appreciate the dire situation American (and eventually all) whites are facing. The advantage I had is that being outside of America and away from the brainwashing of the Zionists by means of Hollywood, TV and all other media. Currently the internet is the only way to fight back against this evil oppression. Soon the 1st Amendment is going to be basically nullified by ‘thought crime’ laws which are actually aimed at the few groups online who really know the score. These laws are designed to pass off _any_ dissent against the Zionist oppressors as ‘incitement to violence’ there are prison sentences attached to these crimes too, so expressing an opinion online such as what I am typing here, will soon be illegal. Scary huh?
For more information and videos check out:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/
There is some ‘racist’ language on this site, but remember a lot of the people have had personal experience dealing with the threat of ‘diversity’ and have lost jobs or known people who have been attacked by other races.
Thankyou for taking the time to read this. Sorry for being so longwinded, but I felt that the white caucasian point of view should be expressed whenever possible since the mainstream media effectively shuns us.
Stay strong
James
There is no such thing as a “love crime,” all crimes are hate crimes. These crimes that are called hate crimes today were thought up by the jewish lobby. State and federal governments were pressured by these White hating jews to pass these draconian laws that are unevenly enforced. Rarely does a nonwhite who commits a violent crime against a White person ever a get hate crime charged against him even when the nonwhite yell racial slurs while committing the crime. However, all a White person has to do is defend himself against a nonwhite and yell a racial epithet while doing so and that White person is guilty of a hate crime. Nonwhites, especially blacks, commit many times more crimes than White people do but the mere mention of that FACT gets a person labelled a racist. Well, I do not care if I am called a racist because facts are facts, and the fact is that nonwhites are guilty of far more crimes against Whites than the reverse but get charged with far LESS crimes, including so-called hate crimes, than White people do.
There was a question from someone in the early days of this thread last month who asked why this woman would make up a story. I confess I did not read all the posts, so if I am repeating please forgive me.
The story as presented by the OCR in multiple articles has a low believability quotient, in my opinion. As for a motivation for this woman to lie, perhaps she lost/gambled or just plain spent the mortgage money. There’s something about her account of the events that makes me think of the old line “The dog ate my homework”
Just voicing my opinion
Hey OCR, do you have an update to this story?
to promote the three strikes law? everyone knows that law is due to be changed. When people are being sent to life in prison over drugs, there is a problem. not to mention the prison system sucks up more money than anything else here in california. no but your right, lets keep wasting money locking up drug offenders.
3 strikes was a reactionary law full of unintended consequences. That’s what happens when people act out of fear. I think 3 strikes is more about vengence than justice. It takes so many variables out of the sentencing equation that really do need to be considered in order to dispense true justice.
And whatever happened to the idea of “correctional facility”. We should be rehabilitating as many prisoners as we can rather than warehousing them and letting them learn worse habits because they are surrounded by un-reformable hard core criminals.
There are reasons whey we incarcerate more % of population than any other western industrialized country…..3 strikes is one of those reasons.
Do you have ANY objective evidence that “rehabilitation” is in ANY way effective?
The entire servant class for Ladera Ranch should go on strike for two weeks and demand higher wages, medical, dental, paid annual 30-day vacations, and full rights citizenship. In fact they should stage a hate crime every time they want to renegotiate their contracts.
Some groups/people are prone to violence.
Check out http://www.fbi.gov Forget drug offense — look at the compiled data
on VIOLENT CRIME .i.e. rape, murder etc. What you will see is that
Blacks while making up 13.9% of the population commit 51.2 of all
violent crime in America. Now lets subtract out of this 13.9% of those
that are already in prison (see bop.gov/state incarceration rates)
Blacks makeup over 50%–We subtract those that are in the pen, subtract
those that are too young/old to commit crime and you’re left with about
6% of the population committing over 50% of all violent crime in
America. What do black leaders like Al Sharpton focus on, uh well some
radio guy who referred to a black basketball player as being a Nappy
Headed Hoe - yet ignores the real problems in the black community is
beyond my comprehension. Btw, it’s not just Blacks, its White liberals
who keep Blacks on the plantation, instead of telling Blacks that its
all Whites fault that the can’t get ahead, they should be telling
Blacks to stay in school and educate themselves.